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Reflector :: Testing the X-510 Collinear.

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Post by 2E0YYY on 30th July 2012 at 08:36
Beam or vertical for VHF? No doubt, the arguments will rage on forever. Last year, I took the X-510 onto GW/NW-43 Cyrn-y-Brain with mixed results, so I decided to give it another couple of outings on both G/SP-004 and G/WB-004.

My activation of Titterstone Clee on Friday was interesting, in as much as the VHF conditions were pretty much flat and activity on the 2m band was quieter than I would have expected (Olympics + holidays maybe). However, despite all this, the signal reports I was receiving were very impressive. Nearly all my reports were end stopping with the the six or seven Watts, I was running. An impressive contact of 135 miles was made with Paul GO4APL in Caterham and also a tricky 92 mile contact with a somewhat surprised Rob GO0HRT in Banks. OK, these would be routine contacts using a beam, however, to get them, I would have needed to work an awful lot harder and picking out Rob on the back of a beam would have been very difficult.

It was pretty much the same story from G/SP-004 on Saturday.

I'm still not convinced I've seen the best of this of this bad boy and I'm really looking forward to giving it a blast when VHF conditions are a little more favourable.

Just a couple of comments...

Is an X-510 practical for SOTA work?

Absolutely not. 2.5 Kilo's of antenna and three swagged 5ft poles, making about five Kilo's of your kit before anything else, not good news! A word of warning, this antenna at 33ft (including poles) is a real handful to erect in the wind and certainly not for the faint hearted. In fact, if I'm 100% truthful, anyone attempting to take this antenna on a SOTA activation, should reasonably expect to be sectioned ;-)

BTW, forget any ideas about saving weight by trying to mount this beast on a fibre glass pole, ...one gust of wind and a fibre glass or even carbon pole will promptly disintegrate.

Does this antenna perform well? You bet it does, 3 x 5/8 on the 2m band will give some excellent gain and you can well expect to be sent a shed load of bills, for bent needles, as well as blown fairy lights, by the chasers.

There's no denying, using a high gain collinear on a SOTA activation is about as much fun you can have at a couple of thousand feet ASL on the VHF band and something I'll continue to enjoy. Sure, it's time consuming putting the thing up and pulling it down and a real PITA to carry, however, when you look at your log book at the end of an activation and ask yourself 'was it all worth the hassle', the answer for me pesonally, is a no brainer.

BTW, I'd be interested in any of the Chasers/listeners comments after Friday and Saturdays activations?

Thanks to all the chasers this weekend, great to have you in the log.

73 Mike
2O0YYY
This thread is closed
Post by G3RMD on 30th July 2012 at 09:17
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Hi Mike,
I'm not going to even try to convince you that heavy verticals are the wrong approach to SOTA, but I offer the following as food for thought.
I activated a couple of GI/MM summits on Friday on 2m and HF ssb. I used a pair of quad loops on 2m and a linked dipole for HF. These were supported by a mast consisting of my two walking poles (essential kit, now that I am over 70 years old). The walking poles are linked in a vertical configuration, by a couple of short aluminium connecting pieces. All of the antenna kit fits within my rucsac and total weight is under 1Kg. I worked the London sota regulars on 2m without any difficulty, as well as all of the regulars in the midlands. HF on 7MHz and 5MHz produced lots of contacts as well.
The approach to MM-8 and MM-9 is very boggy( above gaiters on occasions) and I suspect that I would still be immersed in it if I tried your approach to antenna systems.
I hope to do a couple more MM unique (to me) summits this week. I will alert.
73,
Frank
This thread is closed
Post by G8ADD on 30th July 2012 at 09:23
In reply to 2E0YYY:

I contacted you on Friday on WB-004 at a distance of 51 km. The contact was a bit of a puzzle.

I have a 5-el horizontal yagi at 30 feet and a slightly lower 3-band vertical with a gain on 2 metres of 6.2 dB. You were S9 on the beam and S4 on the vertical. Bearing in mind a cross polarisation loss of a nominal 20 dB you should have been a lot stronger on the vertical than on the beam, but in fact it was the other way around. Either there was polarisation rotation on an obstructed path, or my vertical has a devil of a lot of unexplained loss!

I think that a small beam is a more sensible option for SOTA. Of course, you have to lower it and change its orientation to go from horizontal to vertical polarisation, and there is always the risk of losing contacts by not beaming in the right direction at the right time, but it can help to avoid overload problems when there is a strong station nearby and it is much more friendly to the mast and easier to put up and down. There is always the option of fitting it with 45-degree polarisation and accepting a 3-dB loss in both horizontal and vertical, still leaving you with a modest gain and no need to take it all down to change polarisations.

73

Brian GO8ADD
This thread is closed
Post by G4ASA on 30th July 2012 at 10:17
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Hi Mike

I returned to Sharp Haw on Saturday (yes, remembered everything this time. Listened to you on the way up and gave you a few calls on my H/H from the top but you obviously couldn't hear me. By the time I had got set up you had moved on but you were certainly a good signal.
Any idea when you are going to finish off the TW's?

Dave/G4ASA
This thread is closed
Post by G0ELJ on 30th July 2012 at 11:14
In reply to 2E0YYY:
> Beam or vertical for VHF? No doubt, the arguments will rage on
> forever.
>
> 73 Mike
> 2O0YYY

Hi Mike,

Great to work you on WB-004 on Friday, and your signal was
very good indeed, although I believe you had reduced your power
by using a handheld when I worked you.

I suppose the comparison has to be between the X510 and a 5 ele
Yagi, as they both appear to have comparable gain. But of course
you've got to keep turning the beam, so although the X510 may be
a bit heavier, the convenience may make it all worthwhile.

It's not me carrying it up the hill, though!!

Kind regards

Dave
This thread is closed
Post by G3CWI on 30th July 2012 at 11:18
In reply to 2E0YYY:
> Beam or vertical for VHF? No doubt, the arguments will rage on
> forever.

Only in your mind Mike; everyone else seems to have decided what works best for them on a case by case basis.

73

Richard
G3CWI
This thread is closed
Post by G8ADD on 30th July 2012 at 11:38
In reply to G0ELJ:

A downside to a high gain vertical is that its main lobe in vertical cross-section is compressed close to the horizon, which means that the mast must be vertical. If you haven't made sure that it is vertical or if the wind slants it then there will be segments of the horizon where the gain is reduced. I had mine on top of the beam originally, and the QSB as it rocked in the wind was very noticable!

73

Brian GO8ADD
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 30th July 2012 at 12:48
In reply to 2E0YYY:

Interesting stuff Mike. Are we taking this bad boy on Wednesday? If so, I wanna do a comparison with my floppy slim Jim. I want to see whether the difference in results is worth it. What do you think?

R
This thread is closed
Post by MM0FMF on 30th July 2012 at 12:55
In reply to G7LAS:

Make sure you can get your antenna as high as Mike's antenna or the comparison is not valid.

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by M1EYP on 30th July 2012 at 13:31
Tuesday nights are a good time to compare VHF aerials (and other aspects of your station) with peers. The population is much greater and therefore more data is generated.

Tom MO1EYP
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Post by 2E0YYY on 30th July 2012 at 13:31
In reply to G7LAS:
> In reply to 2E0YYY:
>
> Interesting stuff Mike. Are we taking this bad boy on Wednesday? If
> so, I wanna do a comparison with my floppy slim Jim. I want to see
> whether the difference in results is worth it. What do you think?

No problem Rob.

So that's a 22Ah SLAB, X-510 and 3 poles you'll be carrying. Looks like a dead easy walk to the trig point for me ;-)))

73 Mike
2E0YYY
This thread is closed
Post by 2E0YYY on 30th July 2012 at 14:08
In reply to G3RMD:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for all the info.

GL with your uniques in GM and I look forward to working you from your home QTH soon.

73
Mike
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 30th July 2012 at 14:51
In reply to 2E0YYY:

> No problem Rob.
>
> So that's a 22Ah SLAB, X-510 and 3 poles you'll be carrying. Looks
> like a dead easy walk to the trig point for me ;-)))
>
> 73 Mike
> 2E0YYY
>

Yeah... I carried 22KG over 21 miles in Knoydart - I don't think I'll have a problem! :)))

Since then, carrying the normal radio gear seems less of a challenge!
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 30th July 2012 at 14:52
In reply to MM0FMF:
> In reply to G7LAS:
>
> Make sure you can get your antenna as high as Mike's antenna or the
> comparison is not valid.
>
> Andy
> MM0FMF

Don't worry Andy... I'm taking an axe just in case ;)
This thread is closed
Post by MM0FMF on 30th July 2012 at 15:08
In reply to G7LAS:

Arf! Also, to be serious, have a listen to some of the 2m/70cms beacons on both antennas. The outputs from the beacons are a known quantity and they won't get bored transmitting for you!

144453.0 GBB3ANG Dundee IO86MN
144469.0 GB3MCB St Austell IO70OJ
144482.0 GB3NGI Ballymena IO65VB
144407.0 GB3SSS Poldhu IO70IA
144430.0 GB3VHF Fairseat JO01EH

I think NGI and SSS may be off-air right now.

432980.0 GB3ANG Dundee IO86MN
432934.0 GB3BSL Bath IO81QJ
432970.0 GB3MCB St Austell IO70OJ

Brian G4ZRP tells me GB3ANG is audible at his QTH on The Wirral on an original FT-290 and a simple VHF "whitestick" colinear. 85-90% of the time over a difficult path. So you should be able to detect both it and GB3VHF.

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by GM4TOE on 31st July 2012 at 07:51
In reply to MM0FMF:
> In reply to G7LAS:
>
> I think NGI and SSS may be off-air right now.
>

GB3NGI apparently returned to the air waves about two weeks ago - it is about S4 here right now (via a wormhole in the hills, cannot comprehend why I can hear it; GB3ANG is only 30 miles away and is never audible here except by aurora)

Barry GM4TOE
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Post by G6MZX on 31st July 2012 at 08:14
In reply to GM4TOE:
Hi Barry.GB4ANG.Is always audiable here near Skipton N Yorks as is GB3NGI.But it is very rare that I hear GB3VHF or GB3MCB or GB3SSS. Yet if Don in Devon is beaming my way I can here him ok on 144 ssb.73 Geoff G6MZX
This thread is closed
Post by GM4TOE on 31st July 2012 at 08:35
In reply to G6MZX:

Bet you don't have a 4000 foot hill directly in the way!
Anything in an arc South East to South West of here is unworkable from my qth at 1100 feet!

Barry GM4TOE
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Post by G1PIE on 31st July 2012 at 08:52
hello mike,
from a chaser point of view.
i use a X510N on a 10' pole in the back garden.
for me it is the best antenna for vhf fm i have ever used.
just my input.
73,
mark.
This thread is closed
Post by G6MZX on 31st July 2012 at 08:58
In reply to GM4TOE:
Hi Barry Fair comment.But I do have a lot of surrounding hills.But nothing like you have ATB Geoff
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Post by 2E0YYY on 31st July 2012 at 09:28
In reply to G1PIE:

Hi Mark,

I use the same antenna for home base too. Mine is is on TK brackets above the roof.

73 Mike
2O0YYY
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Post by G3RMD on 31st July 2012 at 15:22
In reply to GM4TOE:
Hi Barry,
The 2M Angus beacon is always a reasonable signal at my home qth. (Cheltenham). The 432MHz Angus beacon is just on, or slightly below the noise floor under flat conditions. During the Icelandic ash cloud period, the 2m beacon vanished for days, only returning when commercial air flights resumed. I was quite surprised that I was so dependant on aircraft reflections for beacon reception from Scotland.
73,
Frank
This thread is closed
Post by G1PIE on 31st July 2012 at 18:07
In reply to 2E0YYY:
smashing mike,
i live in a ground floor flat, so no antennas on the building.
so we manage.
73,
mark.
This thread is closed
Post by 2E0YYY on 31st July 2012 at 19:33
In reply to G1PIE:

Hi Mark,

You get out really well from your flat. Always a big signal to me.

I've stuck a picture of the X-510 on the bottom of my qrz.com page, taken when I was on G/WB-004 Titterstone Clee last Friday. There was no wind when I put it up, but as you can see from the angle it's at later in the day, it really should have been guyed.

73 Mike
2E0YYY
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Post by G1PIE on 31st July 2012 at 23:13
In reply to 2E0YYY:
well smashing photos, max power at my side is about 25 watts more often 10.
cheers,
mark.
This thread is closed
Post by VK3WAM on 1st August 2012 at 02:14
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Interesting these colinears. I'm thinking of making one for 2m. It might be a coaxial based colinear, swapping the core and shield every electrical 1/2 wave. I could coil this up for transport and then attach the end of it to the top of a PVC pipe that can be carried in pieces and then assembled on site. The base would be 3 metres high on an al pole where I would guy, but the colinear itself is still going to be over 4 metres high from there, so I might need a second guy point further up to secure the PVC pipe.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
This thread is closed
Post by 2E0YYY on 1st August 2012 at 09:02
In reply to VK3WAM:

Hi Wayne,

I've stripped down one of my collinears and removed all of the fibre glass. There's a little work to be done, however, it should reduce the weight considerably. Radials are a bit of a pain, though.

I've also looked at this design by W7LPN.

http://www.hamuniverse.com/w7lpnCollinear002.pdf

73 Mike
2O0YYY
This thread is closed
Post by G8ADD on 1st August 2012 at 10:34
In reply to 2E0YYY:

Do you need the radials as such, Mike? Could they be replaced with one downward pointing element as a counterpoise? Just a thought...

73

Brian GO8ADD
This thread is closed
Post by 2E0YYY on 1st August 2012 at 11:16
In reply to G8ADD:
> In reply to 2E0YYY:
>
> Do you need the radials as such, Mike? Could they be replaced with one
> downward pointing element as a counterpoise? Just a thought...
>
Hi Brian,

I did once operate for about an hour from G/WB-003 using the X-300 Collinear without any radials. To be honest, I'd forgot to put them on!

Had no problem making contacts though. Stiperstones is not one of my favorite hills. The first time I activated it, I nearly got blown off the top.

73 Mike
20OYYY
This thread is closed
Post by VK3WAM on 1st August 2012 at 11:29
> In reply to G8ADD:
> Do you need the radials as such, Mike? Could they be replaced with one
> downward pointing element as a counterpoise? Just a thought...

Some of the designs that I have seen recommend the counterpoise to lower the SWR for collinears with fewer elements. For the one I am planning for 2m, I intend on having 4 1/2 wave elements, plus the elements at the bottom and the top. The whole thing will be a little over 4 metres long - plus mounted at 3 meters. Should look impressive. This also might mean I can get away without the counterpoise, but I also plan on integrating an ugly balun suitable for 2m as part of it.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
This thread is closed
Post by MM0FMF on 1st August 2012 at 12:55
In reply to G8ADD:

I thought the radials on these commercial VHF colinears were more to act as an isolator between the feedline and the aerial. They're not 1/4l on the 2m antennas I've seen. They're cheap to make hence their use. Some form of choke to stop currents on the coax outer is needed instead. That's why the W7LPN design has ferrite rings or a choke balun shown.

Andy
MM0FMF
This thread is closed
Post by G8XYJ on 1st August 2012 at 14:39
In reply to 2E0YYY:

I think that you can buy radial free colinears now! However they seem rather expensive!

For SOTA purposes I think for vertical omnidirectional polarity I will stick with my less than 5 pounds Home brew 450 Ohm ladder feed Slim Jim! I have used one for 4m FM loads and have only had to service it once! It coils up and goes very neatly into my rucksack, weighs less than 1/2 a kilo! My 2m ones gets a run out, however it is heavier due to the greater amount of coax compared to the 4m variant!

Still Mike gets excellent results, he says colinear, I say beam! At the end of the day it is a matter of personal opinion and of course what you are willing to lug/spend!

My two pence

Matt G8XYJ
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Post by GM8OTI on 1st August 2012 at 15:31
In reply to G8XYJ:

> At
> the end of the day it is a matter of personal opinion and of course
> what you are willing to lug/spend!

Absolutely Matt!

I'm following this with fascination - I like to take the light weight approach, and couldn't bring myself to squirt the RF in all directions at once - what a waste! I'd far sooner turn a beam as often as needed. For practical beams used for SOTA, you don't need to point it in many directions anyway to work your way round the chasers since the beam width is not that tight. But it's tight enough to squirt the RF power in roughly the direction you want!

A 5-ele DK7ZB has a -3dB beamwidth of around 45-50 degrees, i.e. a gain of about 9dB over squirting the stuff in all directions. That's worth a lot of battery weight to me!

73
John GM8OTI
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Post by G4AZS on 1st August 2012 at 16:11
> > At
> > the end of the day it is a matter of personal opinion and of
> course
> > what you are willing to lug/spend!

Yes indeed, pretty much as Richard G3CWI commented further up the thread.

The other factor is transmit power. If your intention is to work as many chasers as possible, then whatever antenna you use, optimum results will be achieved if you are using the same transmit power as the chaser (assuming current receivers to be much of a muchness). I would suggest that most home based chasers use more than 5 watts.
This may not be obvious, as it is generally the activator who calls CQ, and by definition, only those who can hear him / her will respond.
If chasers often called CQ, then activators with 5 Watts might often find themselves unable to work a weak calling station.

I am only a dabbler compared to many of you, but in my few activations I have used what is to hand, eg an FT290 plus amplifier producing 20 Watts. That is around 6dB, or one S point ish over a 5 Watt handy.
I have received quite a few comments along the lines of "I don't normally hear activations from that summit from home"

Mike takes this to the extreme, by using a high gain verical antenna, and relatively high power as necessary, and he gets great results.

It really does all boil down to what you are trying to achieve. My current aim is to have an enjoyable walk, and work at least 4 stations from the summit!

I'll put my tuppence in the post :o)
Adrian
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Post by 2E0YYY on 2nd August 2012 at 00:23
In reply to GM8OTI:

>
> A 5-ele DK7ZB has a -3dB beamwidth of around 45-50 degrees, i.e. a
> gain of about 9dB over squirting the stuff in all directions. That's
> worth a lot of battery weight to me!

Hi John,

Speaking as someone who has had a foot in both the vertical and beam camps, I wouldn't go back to a beam... Just too much hassle.
Squirt RF 360° from a high gain collinear from a summit in the middle of England and you'll be rewarded with a shed load of contacts. There is no way you will achieve the same results with a beam. Granted, the beam will find better dx, however, for sheer numbers of contacts, a collinear such as the 2 x 5/8 or 3 x 5/8 will beat it hands down.

On a number of occasions, I've also been lucky enough to work from a SOTA summit during tropospheric ducting with a collinear. Then the collinear performs just like a beam, only difference, it's doing it 360°. Now you will work a serious pile-up embellished with plenty of dx.

73 Mike
2O0YYY
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Post by VK3WAM on 2nd August 2012 at 07:14
In reply to 2E0YYY:
What's your view on the 5/8 wave element approach vs the 1/2 wave element approach. Could a colinear with 3 5/8 elements be better than one with 4 1/2 wave elements?

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by GM8OTI on 2nd August 2012 at 11:33
In reply to 2E0YYY:

> Squirt RF 360° from a high gain collinear from a summit in the middle
> of England

Yup - that's a major difference - you're surrounded by lots of folk!

Squirt the limited amount of RF power I have out in all directions from my usual haunts and very few people will receive it. I need to get the distance as well.

73
John GM8OTI
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Post by HL4ZFA on 2nd August 2012 at 14:25
In reply to G8ADD:
> In reply to G0ELJ:
> A downside to a high gain vertical is that its main lobe in vertical
> cross-section is compressed close to the horizon, which means that the
> mast must be vertical. If you haven't made sure that it is vertical or
> if the wind slants it then there will be segments of the horizon where
> the gain is reduced.

Solution I've had for this predicament is that (in low winds) I can let the antenna hang freely from the top of my 9m mast, and regardless of what angle the chosen mounting tree is pitched at, the radiators will be nice and vertical.

It's also much easier to get a vertical antenna up (and down! more difficult!) through a canopy of foliage (varies by summit).

Model? Easy as cake: M0GIA's design. You can see it here where I used it for the first time:
http://w2vla.wordpress.com/2011/05/14/20110514-jb-155-ggitdaebong/
I have since changed the phasing elements from the wind catchers you see in the photos to coils around plastic coffee cups (nest in each other for xport). Have used it in high winter winds with much success (and me out of the wind) and those cups slide right down the pole to keep it from flailing. I've got pics but haven't posted them yet. There's a matching section, j-pole style, so no radials.

Total cost (excluding jackite pole) less than ten clams.

HL1WOU Has been working on a j-pole-less version, using a small matching box (coil/capacitor) at the feed point and ultra tight phasing coils. Thus far I haven't been pleased with the performance. :(

The only real inconvenience is dragging the support around, it collapses to only 46". Power handling depends on how large a gauge wire you use, and I swap between 50 and 5 watts, so it's a tad bit heavier to accommodate.

In the end, I'm sold on the collinnear.

73 de HL4ZFA
Jason.
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Post by G7LAS on 4th August 2012 at 12:18
In reply to HL4ZFA:

Well, what can I say!

I went with Mike to Bardon hill on Wednesday and from the start it was clear there were normal conditions (no lift on).

But his colinear DID produce some better than expected results on 2m fm! I know the hill well and understand the kind of results to normally expect, and that day it was substantially better.

Would I cart that thing up the Cheviot? Well no, but it does make an interesting case.

All the best,

Rob
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Post by G1PIE on 4th August 2012 at 12:27
In reply to 2E0YYY:
nice to get you on NW-076 yesterday mike, from onother 3x5/8 hi, plus i was on the moonraker ht90e handheld led on the bed.
but it was plugged into the x510n with a long ext lead from the shack,
many thanks mike for points.
73,
mark.
This thread is closed
Post by 2E0YYY on 4th August 2012 at 13:12
In reply to G7LAS:
> In reply to HL4ZFA:
>
> Well, what can I say!
>
> I went with Mike to Bardon hill on Wednesday and from the start it was
> clear there were normal conditions (no lift on).
>
> But his colinear DID produce some better than expected results on 2m
> fm! I know the hill well and understand the kind of results to
> normally expect, and that day it was substantially better.
>
> Would I cart that thing up the Cheviot? Well no, but it does make an
> interesting case.
>
> All the best,
>
Cheers Rob,

Very good of you to carry it up ;-)

On my way back from Wales yesterday, I dropped onto the graveyard of 2m FM, GW/NW-076 Mynydd y Cwm. Set up the X-510 and managed to find find 58 2m contacts, the best being a very tricky S2S with Liz M06EPW on G/LD-037 Little Mell Fell. Very little joy on HF though :-(

73 Mike
2E0YYY
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Post by M6EPW on 4th August 2012 at 13:14
In reply to G1PIE:
Hi Mike,

Many thanks for the S2S yesterday onto Little Mell Fell (LD-037).
Even when you droppped the power to 5w (to G6ODU ?) you were still 4/1
With the 10w you were a very clear 5/1 to me.

I was only using the Icom IC-E90 so guess it was only runing about 3-4w at that stage of the day, hence my signal to you being weak.

Hope you enjoyed your day. I had fun playing with 5 different bands on FM yesterday with varying degrees of success.

Hope to catch you again soon

73

Liz.
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Post by G7LAS on 4th August 2012 at 13:18
In reply to M6EPW:

Hi Liz... someone from Bardon on Wednesday, m6--w was trying to contact me but dropped into the noise... was it you?

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Post by M6EPW on 4th August 2012 at 13:28
In reply to G7LAS:
Hi Rob,
Yes it was me. Sadly, just after getting the initial call out, the noise came right up to 5/9 and I lost you.
Great shame as that would have been a really nice contact to get.
Better luck next time hopefully.

73

liz.
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 4th August 2012 at 13:38
In reply to M6EPW:

Well, I'm on holiday in the lakes at the end of this month so I hope to work you then.
Any recommendations for sota summits over that way with a pushchair?

No ordinary pushchair mind... proper off-roader! :)
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Post by M6EPW on 4th August 2012 at 14:26
In reply to G7LAS:
Hi Rob.

Hmmm..... Maybe Dent, Muncsaster, Watch Hill, Binsey or Hallin Fell may be an option.

High Rigg, Blake Fell and Low Fell may be a possibility and there are some higher ones such as Skiddaw via the long bridleway walk up but I guess it depends upon how far you want to push !! Others may have some ideas also that have done more SOTA's

From Dent both ways are possible, though there will be one point where you will have to lift the pushchair over the stile on either route. Dent from the Black How farm side rather than Nannycath Gate is a good solid forestry road for 2/3rds of the way, then you swing left, over the stile and onto good grass covered ground straight up following the wall line to the big cairn. The Nannycatch route is also Forestry tracks though not quite as good and the stile crossing and route to the main summit point marked by a smaller cairn is on rougher ground.

The walk between the two summit cairns (the big on being the secondary summit - though only about 10m in height in it and still well within the activation zone) gets a little bit soft in the middle where it dips but still should be ok for a decent pushchair.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629269859015

Free parking at either Nanny Catch or bottom of Forestry Track opposite farm at Black How.

Muncaster is fairly straight forwards until you reach the final climb bit but probably not totally out of the question. The start is up a good solid track before finally opening out onto the fell.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304294382/in/photostream/

Free parking at Muncaster Castle car park just on the main road.

Watch Hill is once again a good solid Forestry Track up to the top from the southern side or on the main bridleway from the North West / Sout East side - Allerdale Ramble.

The true summit point is in the farm field but the track is well within the activation zone if the pushchair limits you.

Free parking at end of Forestry Tracks

Binsey is a nice wide and quite firm grass track all the way up except for the very last bit but the track passes just below the summit and within the zone (see first photo in the set below). There are good shelters here. Try not to pick a blustery day as the wind can be strong at the top blowing in from the Solway. You may also get some intereference, depending upon rig used, from Caldbeck masts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629269804311/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7156045043/in/photostream/

Free parking at side of road.

Hallin Fell is a difficult summit to work from so take a good antenna and post alerts but the climb up for the church is via a grass track and not too bad at the final part.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629184372339/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304295130/in/photostream/

Free parking at the church.

High Rigg from the Youth Hostel is fairly straight forward, though a little awkward at the start for a pushchair as there are steps up round the side of the YHA. Once up these it is grass tracks to the top.

High Rigg is another summit that can prove difficult to work from. Again, take a good aerial and post alerts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629483730028/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304295456/in/photostream

Free parking by church and YHA (don't be put off by the gate at the farm and cottage across the road. Open and carry on through to YHA)

Low fell is a long walk up and at the bottom part you will need to negotiate 3 kissing gates (farm gates to side) and top part will be harder work once off the track. Going is good though and not soft ground. This is a good hour+ walk to the top so allow plenty of time.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629483723996/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304295928/in/photostream/

Free parking at side of road

If you don't mind a short but quite sharp climb then Litte Mell Fell is a nice summit. It's grass track all the way and two farm gates allow access by the stiles at both points.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304295692/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629483733472/

Free parking at side of the road

Great Mell Fell I would probably say is not feasible as the path up the side of the trees is rough and would make things difficult. The long haul to the summit beyond the trees also gets very wet and boggy and makes for hard going under foot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304295286/in/photostream

Blake Fell may be another possibility. It's quite a long walk up but if you go from the Forestry Track, follow up towards Cogra Moss and then turn right along the fence line, over High Pen and then up to Blake Fell. My GPS track shows Gavel and Burnbank - ignore those. The track comes up from bottom left.
Do not attempt from Burnbank end with a push chair !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/7304294622/in/photostream/

Lord's Seat above Whinlatter may be possible but not from the route Colin and I did up to Barf and across. It looked from the summit as though you may be able to take good routes up through the forest and then come out onto the side of the summit. G4RQJ and others may be able to help with that one.

Grisedale Pike may also be worth asking about. Not done thay yet so again, others may be able to help.

If you are feeling very energetic and adventurous then Dalehead from Honister Slate Mine ;-0



Hope that helps.

Liz.
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 4th August 2012 at 14:51
In reply to M6EPW:

"Hope that helps"?? Certainly does! Many thanks Liz
This thread is closed
Post by M6EPW on 4th August 2012 at 14:59
In reply to G7LAS:
Hi Rob.

I'll aad some more useful links into the above for you, including GPS tracks.

If you need any WOTAs just let me know.

73

Liz
This thread is closed
Post by M6EPW on 4th August 2012 at 16:59
In reply to G7LAS:

> No ordinary pushchair mind... proper off-roader! :)

So is this for your new super-duper telescopic antenna, rig and slab batteries ???
Brings a whole new meaning to "portable"

;-)

Liz.
This thread is closed
Post by G7LAS on 4th August 2012 at 17:03
In reply to M6EPW

Ha ha... no.. I'm sticking to my handheld and ladderline slimjim for now! Unless someone is offering me a 4 by 4 forklift! :)
This thread is closed
Post by M6EPW on 2nd September 2012 at 20:28
In reply to G7LAS:

Hi Rob.

I have added some more photos to the Flickr account

Muncaster Fell - http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157631371441690/

Hallin Fell - http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157629184372339/

Watch Hill - http://www.flickr.com/photos/24287109@N08/sets/72157631371495792/

Hope you find them helpful.

Watch Hill is a nice gentle climb up a firm grass track from Cockermouth side of the Allerdale Ramble, just past the school.
The summit itself can be walked across with no problems even though it is not technically a right to roam field. Many locals were using it on the Friday I went up to activate it.
There is a stile in the corner of the field from Setmurphy Common side but the track looked rather overgrown and not suitable for a pushchair. The main forest track is ok.

Muncaster Fell summit has two main routes up once onto the common. The first is from the corner of the fence. However, if you carry on along the bridleway at this point for about another 200 yards there is a better, more pushchair friendly route up. It was quite wet under foot in places due to the heavy rain of late.

The Hallin Fell shots hopefully will give you a better idea of the gradient on the slope.

If you intend to do Dent next visit, then I would suggest that Blackhow Farm is your better bet. Nannycatch end is good whilst on the Forestry Track, but once you come off of this to head for the summit it is rough and very muddy now. The summit itself is also very wet at present to the point that between the two summits Dent now has a lake ! Black How farm end is still very firm under foot all of the way up to the cairn.

73
Liz
This thread is closed

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