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Post by VK3WAM on 26th June 2012 at 13:43
Does anyone know what is happening here - I know it's not an official SOTA site. Is there maintenance happening or has the SOTA tools on this site been permanently withdrawn?

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by M1CNL on 26th June 2012 at 14:16
In reply to VK3WAM:
Just checked it out here and it seems to be working O.K. Peter M1CNL
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Post by G3CWI on 26th June 2012 at 14:36
In reply to M1CNL:


I tried it but some of the functionality seems to be broken at the moment. The maps don't show the SOTA spots:

http://www.adventureradio.de/sotamap/

73

Richard
G3CWI
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Post by G4VFL on 26th June 2012 at 16:45
In reply to G3CWI:

This link seems to work

http://www.adventureradio.de/mapview/index.php

73

Andrew
G4VFL
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Post by G1FOA on 26th June 2012 at 17:06
In reply to G4VFL:

Youre right Andrew the link works but it only shows the location of SOTA summits not spots.

http://sotamaps.com/ is showing the spots but you have to tell it what you want.

On another tack what a lousy day was going to do a NW summit but got rained off before I started, now whata happened ----- yes the sun's come out.

Still there's always tomorrow or the next day


Peter
G1FOA
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Post by G4AFI on 27th June 2012 at 07:37
In reply to G4VFL:
Even that link is not working this morning, it was OK yesterday. Anyone know if the site is being revamped ?

73s Andrew G4AFI
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Post by MM0FMF on 27th June 2012 at 07:50
In reply to G4AFI:

Mario doesn't do SOTA anymore.

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by GM0AXY on 27th June 2012 at 07:57
In reply to G4AFI:
SOTAMAPS.Com is still working here; make sure you select the Bands and Modes etc. and then do a refresh.... all the Alerts and Spots from Sotawatch come up OK.
73 de Ken
p.s. Mario has withdrawn his support for SOTA, but I worked him on a SOTA summit just the other day, I think!
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Post by VK3WAM on 27th June 2012 at 08:14
In reply to MM0FMF:
> Mario doesn't do SOTA anymore.

Shame that the tools have been taken down. Hope he changes his mind sometime in the future. Maybe over time the functionality that was available there will be built elsewhere.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by G3CWI on 27th June 2012 at 08:24
In reply to GM0AXY:


Hi Ken

Mario was spotted just a few days ago so rumours of him giving up SOTA seem a bit premature!

73

Richard
G3CWI
This thread is closed
Post by G4AFI on 27th June 2012 at 08:36
In reply to G3CWI:
Curious that he has taken the SOTA tools off then. I too hope he puts them back on his website. The maps were useful in visualising where the summits are, which I have used a number of times.

73s Andrew G4AFI
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Post by VK3WAM on 27th June 2012 at 08:38
In reply to G3CWI:
> Mario was spotted just a few days ago so rumours of him giving up SOTA seem a bit premature!
I think it must be a GMA thing. He has no SOTA account, sotawatch reported him as an unregistered user.

EDIT: His site still has tools for GMA as well.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by G4SSH on 27th June 2012 at 08:38
In reply to G3CWI:

I worked Mario DC7CCC on his local hill DM/NS-108 yesterday 26/6/12 @1334z

(Later) and today (27/6)at 1311z on DM/NS-026.
Mario was then heard attempting a s2s contact with HB9BIN/p

73
Roy G4SSH
This thread is closed
Post by VK3WAM on 27th June 2012 at 08:42
In reply to G4AFI:
> Curious that he has taken the SOTA tools off then. I too hope he puts
> them back on his website. The maps were useful in visualising where
> the summits are, which I have used a number of times.
Given that GMA accepts any sota summit as part of that program, you can still access his map tools and select a SOTA association or region. The thing that is gone is the tools that were specific SOTA tools - SOTA spots, SOTA log analysis tools, etc.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by G4AFI on 27th June 2012 at 09:54
In reply to VK3WAM:
Yes this link http://www.cqgma.eu/mapview/index.php can be used to display SOTA locations on a map but obviously it indicates GMA points for each location rather than the SOTA points. So almost as useful.

73s Andrew G4AFI
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Post by N1EU on 27th June 2012 at 12:48
Personally, the loss of Adventure Radio's SOTA summit map is a terrible blow. I used it constantly to plan activations. The cqgma map does not show any info (e.g., summit name) when you hover the mouse and can't come close to replacing the functionality that has been lost. Is there any way to host the old Adventure Radio map on another server?

73,
Barry N1EU
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Post by M0JLA on 27th June 2012 at 13:15

I am absolutely with Barry on this and very much hope that this is only a temporary loss.
73,
Rod
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Post by PA9CW on 27th June 2012 at 13:27
In reply to G4AFI:
http://www.cqgma.eu/mapview/
Thanks, that's just what I was looking for a long time.
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Post by G8ADD on 27th June 2012 at 14:24
In reply to M0JLA:
>
> I am absolutely with Barry on this and very much hope that this is
> only a temporary loss.
> 73,
> Rod

I'm sorry to say that I doubt it.

Mario deleted his logs and asked us to delete his account. He doesn't like the way SOTA is run, and he refuses to accept that the alteration to G1INK's Alert last week was not done by a member of the MT. I do not feel myself at liberty to quote in more detail from his PEM without his permission. He has withdrawn from SOTA and no doubt the loss of the Adventure Radio SOTA Tools is part of this withdrawal.

We will have to give thought to finding a substitute for the tools.

73

Brian G8ADD
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Post by M0JLA on 27th June 2012 at 14:39
In reply to G8ADD:
Brian,
Thanks for the clarification. What a pity.
73
Rod
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Post by N1EU on 27th June 2012 at 16:50
I'm no programmer, but I just made maps of W1 and W2 SOTA summits by pasting the summit CSV info into the Web app at batchgeo.com:

http://batchgeo.com/map/e8d6c693f1b6065eea0a2a26857ceb1e
http://batchgeo.com/map/23a3931fd289962f96f50988c30a72ea

So there are some tools out there worth investigating.

Barry N1EU
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Post by G1STQ on 27th June 2012 at 16:58
In reply to M0JLA:
I agree.

Great shame.
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Post by K0MOS on 27th June 2012 at 18:18
In reply to VK3WAM:
I agree that it is a shame that we lost Mario and his tools. I was using them (the tools) almost daily for planing and reporting.

Since I have no first hand knowledge about the details (just rumors) I can only imagine that there is a huge misunderstanding. Personally I am hoping that all involved parties are mature enough to talk it out and rectify the issue(s) which is Marios return to the program and the return of his tools :)

Please MT and Mario make this happen - SOTA should be fun.

Matt/KMOS
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Post by MM0FMF on 27th June 2012 at 20:18
In reply to N1EU:

What a nice website. Working in the software industry you get blase to yet another webapp or app and it takes something special to get my attention. That's an impressive bit of coding as it does what you for hardly any effort. Visually pretty results for zero-coding... the programmers holy grail :-)

Anyway here's GM/NS using clustering...

http://batchgeo.com/map/8e14d12ffdaae16bef6812e7b962517d

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by DK1BN on 27th June 2012 at 21:23
In reply to MM0FMF:
have a look on

http://adventureradio.wordpress.com/2012/06/27/clarification/
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Post by G8ADD on 27th June 2012 at 22:43
In reply to DK1BN:

Since my callsign is mentioned, I, too, will offer a clarification of my own.

In the past a very few people have been excluded from Sotawatch for disruptive behaviour on the Reflector. There is an established procedure for trying to control such disruptive behaviour: an informal and friendly warning to begin with, followed by a formal warning if the behaviour continues. If this proves ineffective then a first exclusion is applied. At this stage an offender can regain posting rights by promising to mend his ways, but if he offends again after giving such an assurance a permanent exclusion is applied. This exclusion extends to the Alerts, but not the Spots: the alerts because they provide a route for further comments. This was applied also to "third party alerts" after a supporter added a disparaging comment about the permanent exclusion of one activator. All this should be well known, much of it can be located in the archives, and what it amounts to is that nobody is permitted to alert for an excluded person.

The alerts that were edited by the MT referred to the participation of a permanently excluded activator, what happened was merely that his callsign was removed from these Alerts.

In the case of DC7CCC he restored the removed comment, and in removing it again it seems that the alert was accidentally deleted by the member of the MT monitoring the Alerts.

Meanwhile, in a seperate incident an unknown person made a frivolous change to G1INK's Alert where he had replaced the unwelcome callsign with a pseudonym. This is the edit which was made by a hacker using Steve's account, I did not at any point ascribe the entirely proper edits by the MT to a hacker: we have rules, we followed them, end of story.

In reaction to these events, in somewhat abrasive emails DC7CCC requested that his Sotawatch account be terminated, and he deleted his log from the database.

It must be emphasised that DC7CCC is not excluded from Sotawatch, he has chosen to withdraw from Sotawatch and is free to return by opening a new account if he so chooses, all he has to do is contact the MT. I personally am pleased that he has denied withdrawing from SOTA and is continuing to activate.

73

Brian G8ADD
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Post by DL1DLF on 28th June 2012 at 00:00
In reply to G8ADD:

Hello Brian,

Mario is still activating because he loves amateur radio. I didn't have contact to Mario after closing of his account. I believe he is not activating for SOTA, probably for GMA which uses for already existing summits the references as SOTA. So Brian with respect, in this case sending a reference should not be interpreted as denied withdrawing.

73 Joerg
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Post by VK3WAM on 28th June 2012 at 00:28
In reply to DL1DLF: (and to GSADD as well)
It would seem to me that Mario's activation was a GMA activation, and as GMA recognises SOTA summits and uses its codes, then Mario handing out a GMA code would be the same as handing out a SOTA code.

Mario DC7CCC has objected because his alerts were modified and ended up deleted (the deletion has been identified as an accident) because they included the call sign of a person banned from the reflector - It does not take much effort to find out who this person is, and I also note that this person is still active on sites elsewhere.

I also have done some searching but really don't know what this person was banned for, but I am prepared to presume that his banning from the reflector was legitimate, however I also understand that he is not banned from SOTA altogether.

It seems to me that the policy on third person alerts is excessive. I would agree that if third persons post material on his behalf, fair enough, but mere use of this person's call sign in an alert to cause consequences seems too much to me. If this person (and I feel ridiculous to not use his call sign here) was banned for repeated disregard of SOTA rules, then a sanction of no use of his call sign in alert text would be appropriate. Otherwise Mario's alert text saying he was with ?????? causing a edit response seems too much.

73 de Wayne VK3WAM
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Post by KK1W on 28th June 2012 at 01:43
In reply to all,

I too will sorely miss the Adventure Radio SOTA tools. Like Barry it was my 'go to' tool when planning an activation. I don't know any of the parties involved but it is disappointing the entire SOTA community will lose a valuable resource.

I would ask DL7CCC to reconsider his actions. Removing his tools as a message to SOTA MT while sending a message to them of his discontent also removed something many folks used while enjoying SOTA and amateur radio. Aren't we all in this for fun? Is it fair the entire SOTA community should suffer the collateral damage?

At the same time I applaud SOTA MT for considering supplying a similar application to replace the Adventure Radio apps. I realize we, as users, don't contribute for support but an interactive map has become common place with many groups. Of late geocaching.com has introduced a similar map for geocaches. Maybe this should become part of SOTA instead of relying on outside sources for apps that many activators make use of?

Just my two cents worth,

Jim/KK1W
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Post by F6ENO on 28th June 2012 at 06:14
In reply to G8ADD:

Hi Brian,

Can the MT give us the list of all banned from the SOTA ?

Thanks

Alain F6ENO
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Post by G3CWI on 28th June 2012 at 08:33
In reply to F6ENO:

I don't think anyone has ever been banned from SOTA but no doubt someone will be able to clarify this?

73

Richard
G3CWI
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Post by MM0FMF on 28th June 2012 at 09:17
In reply to G3CWI:

You are correct Richard. Nobody has been banned from SOTA, only from SOTAwatch. Only one person has been permanently excluded from SOTAwatch.

In fact the only person ever caught cheating on a SOTA activation is still involved with SOTA and able to enter chases and activations. In most programs being caught in flagrant abuse of the rules results in an automatic and normally permanent exclusion from that program. That activation was deleted and the activator was given the option of deleting any other activations which were not valid. Should it transpire that those activations are anything less than legitimate having been given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to remove them without penalty, then this person will be permanently excluded from the program.

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by N1EU on 28th June 2012 at 09:33
In reply to KK1W:

> I would ask DL7CCC to reconsider his actions. Removing his tools as a
> message to SOTA MT while sending a message to them of his discontent
> also removed something many folks used while enjoying SOTA and amateur
> radio. Aren't we all in this for fun? Is it fair the entire SOTA
> community should suffer the collateral damage?
>

I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, but isn't it possible that DL7CCC did NOT remove his tools but somehow his app lost database access and that is what brought the app down? In other words, something happened to his database account and that immediately brought down the app. If that's the case, can action PLEASE be taken to restore his access/account?

Barry N1EU
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Post by GM4COX on 28th June 2012 at 09:44
In reply to MM0FMF:
Got real potential Andy.

Is it possible to re-do the colour of the summits using the resistor colour code as I do in my Autoroute 'push-pins' ie - brown = 1, red = 2, yellow = 4, blue = 6, grey = 8 and white = 10 (I know it's out of sequence but it's good to indicate a snowy summit - hi!). You get an immediate visulisation of the all the relevant heights.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Jack(;>J
GM4COX
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Post by G8ADD on 28th June 2012 at 09:54
In reply to GM4COX:

Sounds a good idea to me, Jack, and I would prefer a better map, one that gives a good orographic representation of the hills - Google map would be even better, individual hills are shown on Google Map on the summit information pages so presumably we could show the lot!

73

Brian G8ADD (about to start clearing up after a violent thunderstorm!)
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Post by DL1DLF on 28th June 2012 at 09:56

The alerts from DL3SBA, DC7CCC and DL1DLF were edited by the MT.

How great is the chance, that meanwhile an unknown person called Hacker made a disgusting change to G1INK's alert?

Can someone calculate it, I can't.
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Post by MM0FMF on 28th June 2012 at 10:04
In reply to N1EU:

It's a deliberate action Barry.

We wont run SOTA the way Mario wants so he punishes the SOTA users who used his tools by removing them. The result of his actions is to get the former users to request we reconsider.

If my colleague Brian wasn't such a gentleman we'd simply copy all of the many emails Mario has sent so you could see exactly the language used and what was being demanded.

Andy
MM0FMF
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Post by G8ADD on 28th June 2012 at 10:07
In reply to DL1DLF:

That is what happened, calculating odds is irrelevant - not that the events were simultaneous or even near simultaneous: it wasn't until Steve complained about the hack that our attention was drawn to the need to edit the German Alerts, without that we might never have noticed them. Also, this was not the first case of unauthorised tampering on Sotawatch.

73

Brian G8ADD
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Post by F6ENO on 28th June 2012 at 12:34
In reply to MM0FMF:
Hi Andy and Ric,

I suppose that the only ham banned from SOTAwatch is Mike;

I like what Matt KMOS wrote:
> Personally I am hoping that all involved parties are mature enough to talk it out and rectify the issue(s) which is Marios return to the program and the return of his tools :)

Mike has been banned for many years now.
May I ask the MT do do the same for him. Remember, we are not in war, we are hams, and I'm sure that some people of the MT could vote to allow Mike to come again now.

Best 73
Alain F6ENO
This thread is closed
Post by G8ADD on 28th June 2012 at 13:40
In reply to F6ENO:

The exclusion of people from Sotawatch is treated as a confidential matter for legal reasons. I can only reveal that in fact there is more than one person excluded. More I will not say.

Note from my earlier post that exclusion does not come out of the blue, it is a four-stage process, the final exclusion follows an earlier exclusion that is ended by that person giving an assurance that he will in future refrain from posting inappropriate material. The final exclusion is permanent because the MT takes the view that that person has proved beyond any possibility of doubt that his assurances can not be trusted. It is the right and the duty of the MT to continue to edit spots, alerts and posts appropriately for good management of these free online facilities, and that includes the painful necessity of excluding people who show that they cannot be trusted to use these facilities responsibly.

Further discussion of this matter is profitless, I therefore have no option but to close this thread. The rarity of the necessity for such a step on Sotawatch is a testament to the good sense of the great majority of our contributors.

73

Brian, G8ADD, Moderator.
This thread is closed

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